Okay, I've been doing some studying! I only subscribed yesterday and I've been doing some catching up. Right now, I'm mostly thinking about KHOR right now. To reiterate something you mentioned, Jonathan, it's important to differentiate KHOR from gold. Gold is kind of a symbolic standard of wealth, where KHOR is a usable resource. Like an economy based on units of petroleum or a Bronze Age culture that measures wealth in terms of cows (cattle). Petroleum has value in OUR culture and cows can be eaten, milked, used for leather, etc. Stuff you can use, and while gold has 'some' practical uses...eh...
It's going to seem like I'm going off topic but stick with me, I'm exploring the value of KHOR. One assumption I have been making and kinda want to confirm is, when the magic/science cycle changes- science starts to stop working and magic begins to work, right? I haven't seen that stated outright but these historical / cultural / societal changes are somewhat enforced by a tangible environmental change, right? I want to make sure that the assumption isn't that science becomes uncool and magic is the hot new trend for a 1,000 years. I can work with that idea, but my gut says that this a tangible and external change which in turn society / culture mirrors.
That suggests to me that KHOR never changes. It's the same stuff when magic is ascendant and when science reigns supreme. What changes is how the solar system interacts with KHOR. [These are my thoughts, not me telling you how it should work.] So when Science is ascendant there are some aspects of physics / chemistry / electromagnetics that are in place that allow technology (as we think of it) to function. The interaction between energy and physical systems (i.e technology) allows science to work (electricity makes robots go!). When magic is ascendant there is energy that responds to the systems of magic (rituals, force of will, psychic stuff, hermetic symbols, chanting and hand waving) affects and transforms the world around it. KHOR is the energy source in either case, but it's still the same. The environment is changing and interacting with it differently as the cycle progresses. NOT: idea is not exclusive to it having a half-life. That can be true too!
This reminds me of Roger Zelazny's Amber series, specifically The Guns of Avalon. Long story short, royals can travel the multiverse... but they come from a prime reality where technology does not function, except at a Renaissance Italy level. Zelazny describes this as "technology doesn't work" but when you look at it closely, it seems like certain chemical processes are shut off (gasoline engines quit when you get close enough). At some point the protagonist tosses some jeweler's rouge into the fireplace and it ignites.. like black powder. Kinda silly, wood burns in the fireplace but some kinds of combustion doesn't happen, but in the story he finds an exception. The rogue prince is then able to go out to other 'universes' and create firearms that uses this jeweler's rouge as ammo in place of black powder and he returns to his prime universe and changes the dynamics of his war with his brothers for the throne.
OKAY, back to Three Worlds, Three Moons! One of things that might set the BANK apart is they retain the knowledge that KHOR is valuable at any point, no matter where the cycle is at. This becomes especially important during times of transition. Consider, if the "technological" society is almost ground away to nothing, do people have to rediscover KHOR and what it can be used for? And vice versa, does the budding magical society have to rediscover KHOR and how they can exploit it? We're talking about if the BANK can preserve KHOR, we should consider that the BANK understands that it's value transcends the cycle. This may be why some vestige of the BANK endures through cyclical change. The BANK endures because KHOR truly is at the center of everything.
Maybe an incredibly simplified, dumbed down way to say it might be- KHOR is gelatinous electricity AND mana depending on the season of the solar system?
By the way, we should find a different term for the turnover of the Monarchy on FAYRII than "cycle." The word cycle runs the risk of becoming too ubiquitous like "level" in old D&D (i.e player level, spell level, caster spell level, level of the adventure, all of which were (amazingly) different things and all commonly referred to as "level").
If anybody read to the end of this comment, you have my heartfelt thanks!
I see you Mr. Hickman! And I can’t wait to see what you all decide about FAYRII & HEIR! I have to re-read this post in doses; there seems to be and underlying tug of war between dogma and “human” nature, if you will. The idea of an invention to maintain the KHOR seemed inevitable to me from the beginning of this process. It also lends itself to the sensitive balance and connection between BANK & LAB (for me anyway). I think this post set you apart as a creator/world builder because you are playing with destabilizing factors as part of a foundation. I think the science should be true and sound. The conflict isn’t whether BANK lies about keeping KHOR but how everyone and thing deals with that fact until magic changes things (for me anyway). I actually have to pause and come back to this post to rationalize everything. It was too much for me on first read. I did just catch up from the Morrison interview to here in a constant read, so maybe I’m just overloaded and tired.
The Bank should definitely build its HQ like an inverted skyscraper into the land. If HEIR is to be where the disruptive characters are “sent” from FAYRII then it would make sense for experienced hoarding to avoid making a spectacle like a giant building to be seen by everyone from afar.
Does the bank really need to be in the Khor storage business? I understand that Khor is the primary resource in this solar system, and may even be the standard from which currency is valued; but surely there's room in this world for a powerful financial services industry. My interpretation of Ram's idea is that the bank would be more involved with money holding, lending, and investments; all of which have shown to be lucrative ventures in Earth's economic system. Maybe someone does invent an incredibly efficient Khor storage system, but where do they get the money to start that venture and scale it up? (The bank of course!) I could be off the mark on this, but interested to hear other's thoughts on the specific activities of the bank.
It would be interesting if the bank currently can't preserve khor. But they remember in previous cycles they had the ability it just doesn't currently work. With them re acquiring the ability to preserve it it could throw their entire Ponzi scheme into disarray.
Last thought on this for now: What if there was a three tier secret society that stipulates each cycle the clans of the KHOR miners, engineers & bankers take turns in each position while keeping the true secrets of the KHOR between them? They would thereby be the secret masons of 3W3M; sworn to keep the keys to KHOR hidden from the rest.
FAYRII & HEIR seem like there’s a lot of 3D Chess going on but I am still a bit confused. How is the monarchy 100% anti-Institutional if there is always a game of power happening? Is this a situation of once the king is chosen they are completely removed from the politics that got them the throne? I can imagine how life is formal on FAYRII and chaotic on HEIR but I still don’t see how corporations on either can operate publicly without a bit of chaos & formality yet.
There's a Phillip K Dick novel named Solar Lottery that has a weird succession/assassination "ritual." After a new leader is picked (by lottery) a window of time is allowed for assassins to take the target and the winning ticket.
Jonathan, you do not disappoint. After reading RAM’s document, I was wondering how the Institute suppresses knowledge of the previous cycle when some of these organizations like the BANK are making plans for when it happens. But you’re on top of it.
Have you considered a secret conspiracy? A covert group that suspects the truth, but like any good conspiracy, stays out of the perception of the Powers That Be? Nothing inspires the preservation of legend and lore than some other authority saying you can’t.
Would be cool to see that the Banks ability to preserve KHOR be both true and untrue. In that it was true at one time, but the technology was lost or stolen and then they have to keep the story going. This then opens the question of who or what now controls that tech.
Definitely interested in FAYRII being the most anti institute and how magic is embedded in their essence
Okay, I've been doing some studying! I only subscribed yesterday and I've been doing some catching up. Right now, I'm mostly thinking about KHOR right now. To reiterate something you mentioned, Jonathan, it's important to differentiate KHOR from gold. Gold is kind of a symbolic standard of wealth, where KHOR is a usable resource. Like an economy based on units of petroleum or a Bronze Age culture that measures wealth in terms of cows (cattle). Petroleum has value in OUR culture and cows can be eaten, milked, used for leather, etc. Stuff you can use, and while gold has 'some' practical uses...eh...
It's going to seem like I'm going off topic but stick with me, I'm exploring the value of KHOR. One assumption I have been making and kinda want to confirm is, when the magic/science cycle changes- science starts to stop working and magic begins to work, right? I haven't seen that stated outright but these historical / cultural / societal changes are somewhat enforced by a tangible environmental change, right? I want to make sure that the assumption isn't that science becomes uncool and magic is the hot new trend for a 1,000 years. I can work with that idea, but my gut says that this a tangible and external change which in turn society / culture mirrors.
That suggests to me that KHOR never changes. It's the same stuff when magic is ascendant and when science reigns supreme. What changes is how the solar system interacts with KHOR. [These are my thoughts, not me telling you how it should work.] So when Science is ascendant there are some aspects of physics / chemistry / electromagnetics that are in place that allow technology (as we think of it) to function. The interaction between energy and physical systems (i.e technology) allows science to work (electricity makes robots go!). When magic is ascendant there is energy that responds to the systems of magic (rituals, force of will, psychic stuff, hermetic symbols, chanting and hand waving) affects and transforms the world around it. KHOR is the energy source in either case, but it's still the same. The environment is changing and interacting with it differently as the cycle progresses. NOT: idea is not exclusive to it having a half-life. That can be true too!
This reminds me of Roger Zelazny's Amber series, specifically The Guns of Avalon. Long story short, royals can travel the multiverse... but they come from a prime reality where technology does not function, except at a Renaissance Italy level. Zelazny describes this as "technology doesn't work" but when you look at it closely, it seems like certain chemical processes are shut off (gasoline engines quit when you get close enough). At some point the protagonist tosses some jeweler's rouge into the fireplace and it ignites.. like black powder. Kinda silly, wood burns in the fireplace but some kinds of combustion doesn't happen, but in the story he finds an exception. The rogue prince is then able to go out to other 'universes' and create firearms that uses this jeweler's rouge as ammo in place of black powder and he returns to his prime universe and changes the dynamics of his war with his brothers for the throne.
OKAY, back to Three Worlds, Three Moons! One of things that might set the BANK apart is they retain the knowledge that KHOR is valuable at any point, no matter where the cycle is at. This becomes especially important during times of transition. Consider, if the "technological" society is almost ground away to nothing, do people have to rediscover KHOR and what it can be used for? And vice versa, does the budding magical society have to rediscover KHOR and how they can exploit it? We're talking about if the BANK can preserve KHOR, we should consider that the BANK understands that it's value transcends the cycle. This may be why some vestige of the BANK endures through cyclical change. The BANK endures because KHOR truly is at the center of everything.
Maybe an incredibly simplified, dumbed down way to say it might be- KHOR is gelatinous electricity AND mana depending on the season of the solar system?
By the way, we should find a different term for the turnover of the Monarchy on FAYRII than "cycle." The word cycle runs the risk of becoming too ubiquitous like "level" in old D&D (i.e player level, spell level, caster spell level, level of the adventure, all of which were (amazingly) different things and all commonly referred to as "level").
If anybody read to the end of this comment, you have my heartfelt thanks!
I see you Mr. Hickman! And I can’t wait to see what you all decide about FAYRII & HEIR! I have to re-read this post in doses; there seems to be and underlying tug of war between dogma and “human” nature, if you will. The idea of an invention to maintain the KHOR seemed inevitable to me from the beginning of this process. It also lends itself to the sensitive balance and connection between BANK & LAB (for me anyway). I think this post set you apart as a creator/world builder because you are playing with destabilizing factors as part of a foundation. I think the science should be true and sound. The conflict isn’t whether BANK lies about keeping KHOR but how everyone and thing deals with that fact until magic changes things (for me anyway). I actually have to pause and come back to this post to rationalize everything. It was too much for me on first read. I did just catch up from the Morrison interview to here in a constant read, so maybe I’m just overloaded and tired.
imho,
The Bank should definitely build its HQ like an inverted skyscraper into the land. If HEIR is to be where the disruptive characters are “sent” from FAYRII then it would make sense for experienced hoarding to avoid making a spectacle like a giant building to be seen by everyone from afar.
Does the bank really need to be in the Khor storage business? I understand that Khor is the primary resource in this solar system, and may even be the standard from which currency is valued; but surely there's room in this world for a powerful financial services industry. My interpretation of Ram's idea is that the bank would be more involved with money holding, lending, and investments; all of which have shown to be lucrative ventures in Earth's economic system. Maybe someone does invent an incredibly efficient Khor storage system, but where do they get the money to start that venture and scale it up? (The bank of course!) I could be off the mark on this, but interested to hear other's thoughts on the specific activities of the bank.
It would be interesting if the bank currently can't preserve khor. But they remember in previous cycles they had the ability it just doesn't currently work. With them re acquiring the ability to preserve it it could throw their entire Ponzi scheme into disarray.
Last thought on this for now: What if there was a three tier secret society that stipulates each cycle the clans of the KHOR miners, engineers & bankers take turns in each position while keeping the true secrets of the KHOR between them? They would thereby be the secret masons of 3W3M; sworn to keep the keys to KHOR hidden from the rest.
FAYRII & HEIR seem like there’s a lot of 3D Chess going on but I am still a bit confused. How is the monarchy 100% anti-Institutional if there is always a game of power happening? Is this a situation of once the king is chosen they are completely removed from the politics that got them the throne? I can imagine how life is formal on FAYRII and chaotic on HEIR but I still don’t see how corporations on either can operate publicly without a bit of chaos & formality yet.
There's a Phillip K Dick novel named Solar Lottery that has a weird succession/assassination "ritual." After a new leader is picked (by lottery) a window of time is allowed for assassins to take the target and the winning ticket.
Jonathan, you do not disappoint. After reading RAM’s document, I was wondering how the Institute suppresses knowledge of the previous cycle when some of these organizations like the BANK are making plans for when it happens. But you’re on top of it.
Have you considered a secret conspiracy? A covert group that suspects the truth, but like any good conspiracy, stays out of the perception of the Powers That Be? Nothing inspires the preservation of legend and lore than some other authority saying you can’t.
Would be cool to see that the Banks ability to preserve KHOR be both true and untrue. In that it was true at one time, but the technology was lost or stolen and then they have to keep the story going. This then opens the question of who or what now controls that tech.
Definitely interested in FAYRII being the most anti institute and how magic is embedded in their essence